tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post1215521997050840180..comments2024-03-27T23:56:25.286-07:00Comments on Cabinet of Wonders: Whose Ideal Was This, Anyway?Heather McDougalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09683209580852572301noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-25520411616560184252011-10-25T01:46:32.642-07:002011-10-25T01:46:32.642-07:00Great analysis! The mirror of ideals doesn't r...Great analysis! The mirror of ideals doesn't reflect our image, but the way the comercial advertisers want us to look. They are repeating sertant messages so often till they become true.Frumingelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17636037568822000464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-53603753629154616922011-09-30T11:27:24.475-07:002011-09-30T11:27:24.475-07:00Heya, I just stumbled across your blog. You have s...Heya, I just stumbled across your blog. You have some really good stuff here, you should update more often.Mark Fengerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01922616270777907779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-61337275038079689782011-09-02T23:33:53.815-07:002011-09-02T23:33:53.815-07:00Amazing article! Thank you for posting this.Amazing article! Thank you for posting this.Sarah Gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01549553125576712480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-46681270869573011122011-08-14T17:11:19.763-07:002011-08-14T17:11:19.763-07:00And about Halle Barry: I did not say definitively...And about Halle Barry: I did not say definitively that she is retouched, only that she has the option of benefiting from modern technology, where Ursula Andress did not.<br /><br />Modern technology also allows people like Barry to make use of exercise machines, plastic surgery, and any number of other things, that weren't available in the 1960s -- if they want to (and very few still images are actually left alone these days).Heather McDougalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09683209580852572301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-9123356125656971242011-08-14T16:52:32.888-07:002011-08-14T16:52:32.888-07:00About the fourth paragraph: I was saying that the ...About the fourth paragraph: I was saying that the ideal of one generation tended to be passed on genetically to the next generation, and then that generation's ideal would be different, so their genes no longer worked.<br /><br />For example, from 1950 to 1980, women's unrestricted waist measurements (as seen in proportion to their bust and hip measurements)grew by something like 20%. This is not merely an obesity effect, but an effect of tiny waists no longer being an ideal.Heather McDougalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09683209580852572301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-43565030343929410562011-08-14T16:46:09.624-07:002011-08-14T16:46:09.624-07:00mrG,
I see what you are trying to say, but the av...mrG,<br /><br />I see what you are trying to say, but the average 13-year-old does not have that kind of discernment. What she sees is an image of what she is supposed to look like, and she is not thinking at all in terms of archetypal constructs. Your averager person on the street, even, does not think that way. They see a picture of an emaciated girl with large breasts and they don't think to themselves, "Ah! That is a document of what is beautiful." They look at an image of Halley Barry, and they think that's really what she looks like, even in her pajamas, and they feel bad about themselves. If this were not so, we would have far fewer eating disorders, and plastic surgeons would be making far less money.<br /><br />So I'm afraid I would have to respectfully disagree with you on all counts. The intention may be as you say, but the results are nowhere near.Heather McDougalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09683209580852572301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-5712720538187200162011-07-26T21:02:35.781-07:002011-07-26T21:02:35.781-07:00I just want to say that the only thing I think you...I just want to say that the only thing I think you made a mistake about was when you said that people knew that they couldn't look like Halle Barry. How is anyone supposed to know that she's all photoshopped in a movie or in posters? People think that's real! I swear. I would have had no idea. It's not common knowledge that it's photoshopped to take out the inregularities. Other than that, good observations. I still think it's disgusting that the majority of the population in the world has to have a handful of people being held up as the ideal. It's ridiculous. There are as many shapes and sizes as there are people and they are all unique. A culture that causes inferiority complexes is a disgrace. Every actor and actress should be different. Celebrate uniqueness. I would much prefer Ursula's body. Halle Barry is too skinny.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-37364182088164696162011-07-26T20:20:06.724-07:002011-07-26T20:20:06.724-07:00I saw halle berry in person about 10 years ago dur...I saw halle berry in person about 10 years ago during her xmen days. she didnt need digital film or photoshop help. she really was that stunning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-16913967992358872762011-07-25T12:02:17.987-07:002011-07-25T12:02:17.987-07:00I can't take this post seriously with regard t...I can't take this post seriously with regard to mens body image.<br /><br />The acceptance of chest hair alone has veered wildly in the past 30 years.generichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06182960243270387079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-2537635456846481202011-07-25T05:50:57.121-07:002011-07-25T05:50:57.121-07:00Great article! It had never occurred to me that th...Great article! It had never occurred to me that the divergence of men and women's tastes was a new thing, I wonder if it has really never happened before in physicality... it certainly happened long ago in fashion.<br /><br />One nitpick... the second image of Brad Pitt is from Troy, not Fight Club.Anyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-38607032416004751322011-07-24T20:47:54.409-07:002011-07-24T20:47:54.409-07:00And maybe the way to handle this with our children...And maybe the way to handle this with our children is what you have just done...place it in historical context, give them a sense that "this too shall pass." The more they understand the relativity of beauty from age to age, and across gender, the more likely it is that they will stand back and think before they accept standards with no personal input. ThanksHealiganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11198319344895178005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-83944917222818040052011-07-24T20:47:22.879-07:002011-07-24T20:47:22.879-07:00And maybe the way to handle this with our children...And maybe the way to handle this with our children is what you have just done...place it in historical context, give them a sense that "this too shall pass." The more they understand the relativity of beauty from age to age, and across gender, the more likely it is that they will stand back and think before they accept standards with no personal input. ThanksHealiganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11198319344895178005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-79760838258374680092011-07-24T18:37:19.541-07:002011-07-24T18:37:19.541-07:00Great article... me w/the curves of MM. Just need ...Great article... me w/the curves of MM. Just need to correct 1 thing... the 2nd picture of Brad Pitt is not Fight Club, but Troy where he "beefed up" his physic. In almost all of Brad's movies he is a firm, fat free man w/well defined muscles. He has very high tone, and no body fat, good genes. In fight club his look more toned, but the character played off that, if you look at Ed Norton's physic & his statements in the commentary about how he felt he should appear. As an occupational therapist I see many injuries & poor body building habits of men try fit the perfect image... so many over work themselves & look funny as well as cannot reach various body parts.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17964690666710861503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-16349615017254169992011-07-24T16:01:06.470-07:002011-07-24T16:01:06.470-07:00This is a fantastic article, with one tiiiiny erro...This is a fantastic article, with one tiiiiny error, and I only mention it because someone will use it to claim that your entire piece is wrong - that second shot of Brad Pitt is not from Fight Club.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-62950704503309076302011-07-24T12:50:13.399-07:002011-07-24T12:50:13.399-07:00Body dysmorphia is getting weirder for both sexes ...Body dysmorphia is getting weirder for both sexes all the time. Until recently I thought that steroid use was the pinnacle for men, but then I learned about Synthol. I'd wondered when men would get an equivalent to silicone implants, and here it is: an utterly unsafe substance injected, illegally, to bulk up the muscles. Google it and be horrified.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-59012850795162148392011-07-24T11:51:02.786-07:002011-07-24T11:51:02.786-07:00But by the 1990s, with G.I. Joe Extreme...
Dave B...<i>But by the 1990s, with G.I. Joe Extreme...</i><br /><br />Dave Barry referred to this male ideal action figure as "Testosterone Bob".critterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14331359234846241164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-74752937655683898672011-07-24T11:42:57.836-07:002011-07-24T11:42:57.836-07:00Great analysis! EXCEPT I've always had a "...Great analysis! EXCEPT I've always had a "Twiggy-like" body, it's just my natural body type, and some girls' too! So be careful not to commit the subtle mistake of disqualifying thinnes either, (or any other type) cause young girls could start feelling ashamed of it too, just support the idea of the value and beauty of natural uniqueness!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-81700879124200991512011-07-24T10:48:44.604-07:002011-07-24T10:48:44.604-07:00Great article. I'd encourage you to take the h...Great article. I'd encourage you to take the historical imagery back to the old oil painting era; there was a really wide range of ideal body type there. Skinny wasn't pretty in a lot of cultures.Jorahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09523990606583343172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-65629960790807905602011-07-24T09:23:40.835-07:002011-07-24T09:23:40.835-07:00There is an inaccuracy in the fourth paragraph. A ...There is an inaccuracy in the fourth paragraph. A person does not inherit a physical characteristic of their parent if it was one that was unnaturally forced on the parent's body. It's not actually in their genetic makeup, in other words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-44021118489188184252011-07-24T09:16:42.741-07:002011-07-24T09:16:42.741-07:00That is Brad Pitt from Troy, a not very widely acc...That is Brad Pitt from Troy, a not very widely accepted or enjoyed movie. Brad Pitt from Fight Club Looks like the 1st one, if they beat the beejessus out of him. The other male lead is also of that smaller body type. The Female lead is skinny and whacked out on drugs. <br /><br />Not a good example of your points.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-49373774779273397432011-07-24T08:07:13.407-07:002011-07-24T08:07:13.407-07:00Let me maybe put this into perspective by appealin...Let me maybe put this into perspective by appealing to a different media: does <i>any</i> young boy of antiquity to now truly believe he could be as heroic as Ulysses? Does that make Homer complicit in portraying an unattainable image of male-ness and honour that should be dismissed with distain? Or are we <i>all</i> on an Odyssey of our own, following our own universal hero's quest, and if so, does that archetypal story of Ulysses help us see our own strength, courage and determinations?mrGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00582052332934960204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-51199756391707524912011-07-24T08:03:58.529-07:002011-07-24T08:03:58.529-07:00I expect its not what you're expecting to hear...I expect its not what you're expecting to hear, but dare I suggest that you are missing the point and perhaps even misleading the children? What if, just <i>what if</i> the functional purpose of the representational art in fashion is not to depict <i>real</i> people so much as to draw the attention to archetypal constructs? Wouldn't then the questions the viewers ask change from "<i>Why can't I be like Halle Barry Enhanced?</i>" to a far healthier inquiry, "<i>How can I see those attractive features in myself?</i>" or better "<i>How can I see those romantic features in my own partner?</i>"<br /><br />Do you see what I am getting at? The imagery is not <br />intended as a document of the model's state, but as a document of <i>what is beautiful?</i>, ie it is about asking questions about what and who we are as human beings, what makes us tick, as Marcel Duchamp said, about seeing <i>seeing</i>, about understanding the mechanics of our perceptions. Ursula and Halle are both undeniably attractive to the hetrosexual male, but in different ways; they highlight <i>different</i> aspects of the miracle of the visual-geometry of the female form (speaking as a male here of course ;) Twiggy too, has a vulnerable cute-ness that one can see in the eyes of so many women, and the whole <i>reason</i> she is the supermodel is because that look can be seen in the eyes of <i>all</i> her urban London cultural contemporaries. As they say in the trade, she has the <i>look</i>, she has the zeitgeist that is shared across the most fashion buyers and those they are trying to impress. She doesn't have a unique look, she has a <i>universal</i> look, her task is a unification of women.<br /><br />Sweeping generalizations are dangerous of course, but I think the real purpose of fashion isn't to <i>replace</i> the un-photoshopped everyday people, but rather to draw us into looking at the ordinary with new eyes.mrGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00582052332934960204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-89969969498941022042011-07-24T07:41:37.839-07:002011-07-24T07:41:37.839-07:00I am so glad you are teaching this. I had a teache...I am so glad you are teaching this. I had a teacher spend time throughout the year on deceptive ads and the motivations behind them, which gave me the tools to see it all objectively. Including the manipulation of female images. That was 40 years ago, and I still use that understanding. <br /><br />This should be part of every school's standard curriculum. <br /><br />(Found you via Neatorama.)Zhoenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03515663141425057088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-90887166595867760362011-07-20T15:16:12.092-07:002011-07-20T15:16:12.092-07:00Your students are very lucky to have someone like ...Your students are very lucky to have someone like you to guide them. There are so many unreal images of women out there. I agree- women are competing. The average male would think "she is hot!" from everyone from Twiggy to May West.<br /><br />I think Brad in Fight Club got voted to number one as a male ideal body. I sure think it is.<br /><br />There is a wonderful book called Extreme Beauty from MMA. Deals with this. <br /><br />Excellent article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4843157625045099797.post-40943983576591357222011-07-10T13:42:54.201-07:002011-07-10T13:42:54.201-07:00well-said. it's nearly impossible in this cult...well-said. it's nearly impossible in this culture to be happy with one's body, and raising children to accept & appreciate their bodies is insanely difficult. fashion so often holds up a mirror of cultural values & beliefs about what it is to be human, to be male or female, and what we value as a society...rather scary to contemplate that!nofixedstarshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15514617120008201743noreply@blogger.com